Hey everyone,
So, after a long delay we are trying to get the F+V interviews rolling again. Jim and I are having this "Art Brawl" conversation (some of you already know of this). We would like some responses to the question below and/or pose your own question(s) back to the group. We wanted to do this in person but it's hard to get everyone in the same spot at once, So keep it casual and conversational, not all "emaily". If each of you could also attach a short (few sentences) bio about yourself and your art that would be great. Not sure when or what will be included in the magazine but will keep you posted. Please respond "all" and we look forward to hearing from you. Would like to get this done ASAP.
Thanks,
Michael
"Art Brawl"
We started this conversation because of Jim's love of the Philadelphia Eagles and mine of the Washington Redskins, also our mutual dislike of each others loves. The teams (professional football for you arty know-nothings) are long time bitter rivals, but we, as artists and friends maintain a civility during our discussion.
We have created some questions to get the ball rolling feel free to jump in add your thoughts start your own questions and lets see where it goes.
Question: Why is the image of the artist that of a non-sports loving, softy? Most of the artist I know love sports, playing them, watching them , rooting for their favorite hometown team.
James Lee (JL):
The artist is a mysterious image...I believe it lies somewhere between Michaelangelo carving a piece of marble and Maynard G. Krebs sitting in a coffee house. The artist is viewed as solitary, sensitive and ellusive. And I'd like to think that all of that is true to some extent. I enjoy the studio environment an excercise in both the cerebral and the emotional Its the solitude, time to listen to really loud music, travel at the edge of being in control and having all hell break loose. It can be a tense situation at times. I can also Identify with the sports fan. The image of a sports fan tends to be exaggerated by face painters, and mobs of overweight beer drinking thugs congregating by pickup trucks and sporting "my guys" jersey. This is a huge part of the subculture, however, that is hardly what all sports enthusiasts subscribe to. I choose not to paint my face or any other body part (and certainly don't begrudge anyone their vision of team spirit) but I can get involved in most other aspects of the fandom...watching games trying to stay composed -- figuring out the nuances the strategy the ebb and flow of momentum...but most often I get involved in good natured unruley behavior such as yelling obsenties at the field or TV and taking jabs at fans of the opposing team. At the same time I have a true sensitivity to the whole thing...It pains me to watch a player fail at their position and I feel for people that live in the community that supports its team. I'm a huge Philadephia sports fan...been so since I was in grade school. I grew up in a small town in Michigan but I didn't get Detroit TV or radio stations...I only got Chicago area reception. I just couldn't cheer for any of those teams I hated the Cubs, Bears, Bulls, Blackhawks...didn't mind the White Sox I believed they were the underdog in town... So My parents took me to my first game at Wrigely Field...and my older brother is a Cubs fan so my natural reaction was to go against what is set up for me...so my first game at Wrigley has the Phillies in town...I guess I fell in love with the blue uniforms or maybe it was my anti Cubs fan sentiments even at the tender age of 7 but since then I have been a die hard Philly sports supporter.
Michael Scoggins (MS):
I think most people (general art viewing community) only see the shiny finished product on the white wall of the gallery and the social aspects of the art world. They don't see the studio practice that is very hands on and physical. Artists have to have the mental and physical capability to be successful at their practice. It is a mixture of hands on and intellectualism. Maybe sports are seen as a nonintellectual endeavor? I guess what I'm trying to say is that artists are seen as part of the elite when in fact they straddle worlds and also have many blue collar attributes.
Why is there this misperception of artist and sports not going together? Both occupations are highly competitive and demand the individual be highly skilled.
Is it elitism in the art world? Does a sports loving artist feel ashamed to admit his/her love for fear of being looked down upon? Are sports seen as low brow and for the common folk? To lowly for the high and mighty artist to soil his/her reputation with admission of fondness. Maybe it's the "cool factor" and to love something so main stream is frowned upon. Most of my art friends are also sport fans, but you never hear it in casual conversation at a gallery opening (maybe just among ourselves).
I was not an athlete growing up but I loved to watch sports, keeping stats and following players. I grew up in the suburbs of Washington D.C. and this is Redskins country. The Redskins were my first love and I cheered and cried with them over the years. This is how I bonded with my Dad and shared my enthusiasm. I've been following them my whole life. I think the only time my interest waned was in graduate school. I would follow them online and in the papers but was just to busy to spend every Sunday during the season in front of the TV. But today I make time ever when buried with work.
I'm not sure how much sports influences my art or vice vera. I do have some sports sketches that I have never made into works. Mostly tribute to past Redskins greats, maybe one day they will become larger works. Could the stigma of artists loving sports be preventing these works from becoming a reality?
Brent Birnbaum:
To be an artist from Dallas and talking with Eagles and Redskins fans is the right recipe for an art brawl.
Jim knows he can call me out immediately on the unspeakable embarrassment of a football game that occurred back in '08. The Redskins and Cowboys rivalry is historically the most noted in professional football and always in every top ten list of the greatest sports rivalries ever. It has served me well as excellent texting banter with Michael and a welcome distraction and interaction with another human when in the studio.
As Jim said and I concur, the artist is viewed as solitary, sensitive and elusive. You would never use these words to describe an athlete. At least not when we were young and our identities as sports fans were being formed. With sports as opposed to art, you are part of a group and hanging out with your boys. You are 14 and going to throw the ball in the driveway after the game or run over to bug those girls Yasha and Dana who only live 3 blocks away. Maybe Obama can make some changes, but art doesn't offer the seductive security of peers at a young age.
Even now I feel part of something greater than myself because I just watched the last 5 minutes of the Fiesta Bowl. McCoy hit Quan Cosby for a 26-yard touchdown with 16 seconds to play, lifting third-ranked Texas to a 24-21 victory over No. 10 Ohio State. I teared up with Texas pride, and would have felt embarrassed if anyone saw my sensitive artist side.
I feel the image of the artist is that of a non-sports loving, softy because society tells us they are mutually exclusive from an early age.
Even now for us intellectual artist adults, there is a contemporary art podcast called Bad at Sports.
My upbringing with sports, so we are all on the same playing field, is as follows: Being born and raised in Dallas, sports was a fundamentalist religion preached by my family and community. My cousin was a Dallas Cowboy Cheerleader, my grandfather a former quarterback for the Green Bay Packers, and my stepdad had played tight end for the Seattle Seahawks. I grew up going to everything and playing everything and still play soccer on Tuesdays when bowling league is on break and basketball on Fridays. I find it the perfect antidote to being in my head all day in the studio. Although therapy and a 12-step program have only halfway unravelled in mind why it is now ok for sports and art to unite. I expect this dialogue to unravel the other half.
To answer your question Michael: Could the stigma of artists loving sports be preventing these works from becoming a reality? Yes, but that is exactly why you should do it. I thought Koons and Hammons corned the market on basketball, but I have seen young artists successfully take on hoops in a way that really excites me. Tom Sanford, Mike Quinn, and Adam Taye come to mind. I am actually making a body of work now about competition and the current portrayal of American Indians. This is usually in the form of sports team identities resulting in racial, cultural, and spiritual stereotyping. Redskins?!?! Maybe Scoggins and Birnbaum corner the market on football.
(JL):
Hey Brent welcome to the forum...had no idea we had a Cowboys/Horns fan in our midst...awesome game last night for sure...anyways, really like your response...I have a question for you or anyone else that cares to take it.
Brent mentions the huge aspect of rivalry in sports...does the same exist in the art world? I mean it wasn't long ago (in the mid century) you had a team-like mentality in the art world...You'd have a your Uptown club (gallery repped artists like Motherwell and Rothko) vs. the downtown club (the downtrodden deKooning and Kline p288-Steven/Swan). These two factions would draw up manefestos and sign on due to their staunch beliefs about what constituted "Art". I view this as an us vs them situation...not quite Redskins/ Cowboys but you get my drift. Anyways, do we as artists still have a sense of competition? I haven't ever written a manefesto---wouldn't even know how to start if I wanted to...does that mean that a fundamental change has occurred in the art world? Or was the club mentality a product of a very rare time in art when young American artists were trying to find their way out from under the European big brother? Obviously, individual rivalry has always been around some friendly, some not so. I imagine Matisse vs. Picasso would have been a good game.
Brad Berkner:
JOCK ROCK
Hello, Brad here
As I begin writing this a commercial comes on the television for the Winter X Games with the tag line "Original Works of Sport" which I thought was very interesting considering this conversation. Are we strictly talking about major team sports ie. football, basketball, baseball etc...? I feel that skateboarding and snowboarding leave quite a bit more room for self expression than a strictly enforced organized sports. The rest of this entry will focus on organized sports in particular because trying to include action sports into the equation would be too much.
I was born in 1976 and raised in Pittsburgh PA and when you are raised in the Burgh you are a Steeler fan and for that matter a Pittsburgh fan (any sport). Athletics are part of the culture and there is no "sports town" like it, we live a breath sports. My parents were both athletic and I grew up playing sports, any sport I could possibly try I would. I was always outside with friends or on my own generally playing some sort of sport. There is an episode of Mr. Rogers Neighborhood where Hall of Fame wide receiver Lynn Swann takes Mr. Rogers to the ballet studio where Swann practices. Yes, a football player who studied ballet. This gave my mom (a physical education teacher who worked with special needs students) the idea to suggest "Lynn Swann takes ballet so I think you should take gymnastics" At the age of 4 or 5 gymnastics was exceptionally great in terms of developing my agility and muscle control albeit not the prototypical idea of a JOCK.
I would spend hours and hours as a child kicking the soccer ball in the yard by myself trying to perfect my skills and think of new creative ways to manipulate the ball. I feel part of the reason I chose soccer "the beautiful game" was for its amazing creativity and the fact that it was not a mainstream sport when I was growing up. Pittsburgh is a football town and while growing up and playing soccer in school we would be called "soccer fags" by the football jocks (the term "skater fags" was thrown around quite a bit as well) I would prove time and again that I was generally far more athletic than the football players. It wasn't that I was bigger, taller or stronger but that I was able to break down my opponent and creatively attack their weakness.
In terms of art, I feel that the idea of creatively attacking a problem in a way that no one else may conceive of is certainly a concept related to sports. It is about making choices. The choice to lob a ball over a defender rather than dribbling right into them when all other passing lanes are covered. The choice to listen to punk rock when others were listening to NKOTB. The choice to wear baggy jeans or a dye your hair when everyone else gets the bowl cut. Just like the choice to use a red when everyone else is using blue. It is in some ways about rebellion, going against the grain and being an individual. I feel the best atheltes are the most creative, the Lynn Swanns, Mario Lemieuxs, Troy Polamalus and Zinadine Zidanes.
I also want to comment on Williamsburg and the void in reference to Brent's comment on the pod cast "Bad at Sports". Being a hipster is about being ironic right? because its cool to be bad at sports? All these "art" kids most likely escaped what they felt to be the norm (jocks / shopping plazas etc...) only to fall into a sea of mirrors. They all dress the same, act the same and essentially are assimilating to something which Im guessing they at one time may have rebelled against, normality. So when I get strange looks wearing a Steeler jersey or called "stalky" when Im actually just husky this causes me to lift more weights, take longer hikes and jiu jitsu classes because in my eyes, looking at these kids, art lost its edge. I want to see an artist who is a giant defensive lineman 6-6 330lbs or even just a short chubby woman because art more than sports is about how you look/act rather than what you produce. Athletes in a professional sense are not granted the amount of poor choices (athletically speaking, forget vick) that artists are afforded. Lets just say Paul Giamatti would have been benched after Fred Claus. There are plenty of horrible artists that shouldn't earn a dime but athletes actually have to produce.
Anyway, Im not sure where all of that was going but I feel sports and art are both about making choices and both have some sort of exclusivity. It would be interesting to know how many professional athletes are large investors in art? This argument also feels like it may only reside in the United States? Im thinking that maybe other cultures are more receptive to the arts and sports and their interaction?
because art is gay
and I'm gay for art
your "art fag"
Brad
(JL):
Hey Brad,
Great point about about creatively attacking a problem and making choices on the field or in the studio. I agree the great ones in sport are able to improvise and create advantages for themselves (and other team mates) and yet still work within the system that is employed. In art I would say the great ones are able to know what the rules are and select which ones they want to break and how they want to go about it or how far they want to push those rules around without their endeavor looking like a strategy. Is this a fair assessment or am I over exaggerating the obvious?
on a side note...a good friend of mine used to play pickup basketball in Santa Monica with Bruce Nauman. I hear Nauman had a killer cross-over but lacked a jumper outside of 15 feet.
Brent Birnbaum:
I like bruce nauman even more now.
That really humanizes him for me.
On jims thoughts on rivalary... Do you think koons and hirst think of each other? They seem to battle for spectacle at the least.
Brent
Brad Berkner:
Rivalry? What Rivalry? Jim at least our teams actually made it to the playoffs! hahaha
I think Michael wrote this in his earlier post...
"Could the stigma of artists loving sports be preventing these works from becoming a reality?"
I think what I was trying to get at in my wild, nonsensical post earlier was that now more than ever may be the perfect time to implement sports into the art scene, going against the grain a bit. I think that the dichotomy of artists or people in the arts is that they either love sports or hate them (maybe not hate but do not understand them) so that tension alone should warrant some sort of conversation like we are having now or through artwork such as painting, video, etc...
Athletes are these giants in life and often referred to as gladiators and heroes. They have chiseled physiques and are built of stone like massive Roman statues. (some have statues now, Roberto Clemente, Michael Jordan) I think of Pat Tillman's story. An amazing athlete serving and dieing for his country. (photo attached) just take note of his face and jaw line alone.
Maybe this is where the exclusivity (exclusive may not be the right word) comes in as artists of certain prominance just as atheltes become these larger than life characters, just as Brent mentioned after learning that Nauman played basketball "it humanized him for me"
I used to live in Charlotte NC home of NASCAR. I thought about doing some sort of series quite a few years ago dealing with NASCAR and specifically the crashes. Extremely large projections maybe of photographed stills of crashes similar to Warhol's death and disaster series. NASCAR is the second most commercial sport (maybe 1st) behind football I believe ??? here in the US. One of my cousins named their son after Cale Yarborough (Cale) I worked at CBS news in Charlotte and they told me that when Dale Earnhardt crashed and died (I watched that race) they actually recieved a few calls at the station saying there was a giant 3 in the clouds. #3 "The Intimidator" is a legend. You can go on the Dale Earnhardt tour of where he grew up and eat a "mater" sandwhich (just mayo and tomato on white bread) just like Dale.
I think there is certainly something to say about the physicality of it. Using ones body to execute precise tasks with extreme attention to detail.
(MS):
You guys have inspired me. I have an awesome sketch of Redskins legend Dexter Manley that I've been sitting on for several years and I'm planning on basing a new work on that drawing. He was a beast on the field back in the day and a colorful character as well. Brent, we can totally corner the market on football in the art world. As far as Koons and Hirst, I think they must absolutely check in on each other, unless of course they're so wrapped up into their own outrageousness they have become oblivious. Rivalry is alive and well in the art world, I love to listen in at openings and hear other artists bad mouth the exhibition where you can taste the bitterness/envy. This is sad and I'm not innocent in this either, but I also think friendly rivalry is healthy and promotes new and interesting ideas. DO any of you have an 'Art Nemesis'? Good or Bad.
Dana Crossan (DC):
Okay I am finally going to sit here and write something. I am basically going to start with some background on myself. I grew in a divorced household at age five and clung to my older brother right away. I also have a grandmother who is a watercolor artist. So...growing up and hanging out with my brother I was involved in everything that had to do with the outdoors. Baseball and flag football were my favorite. When i wasn't outside playing and running around I was inside working on my chalk board or coloring in my coloring book. At the age of 8 I was enrolled, (by my grandmother) into art classes after school once a week. I guess it stuck but so did sports....
Art vs Sports.
I believe society has seperated the two from the beginning. I didn't ask to love painting and I didn't ask to love all sports...I just do and I'm a female and pretty damn good at both!! I feel artistic people are more sensitive to the world. We take in a lot of what surrounds us, we are more passionate about things. Athletic people carry themselves as strong individuals and fearless. Take the movie Wedding Crashers for example...you have the whole family playing football or rugby and than you have the one "artsy" son who is sitting alone outside with his cavnas painting in all black and pissed off at the world. Look how we are viewed. Take the movie "She's All That" (I know some of you have seen it) Well you have the "nerd artsy girl" who gets fooled by the popular jock kids at school, but at the end they clean her up put a dress on her and she became "cool". Media plays a huge roll in why the two are seperate.
I think people also dedicate their time to the one thing they love the most. I spend way more time painting than I do playing sports however I do watch a lot of sports on tv. I'll even watch golf! I am not saying you can't be dedicated to both, but you tend to lean towards a certain passion. If one day i become so involved in my paintings where I dont even have time to watch a football game, I would be very sad, but i'd deal. If I were never able to pick up a paint brush again but told I can go to the Superbowl every year and become the next quarterback for the chargers (even though i am a Tampa fan) it would be super badd ass but I would be devastated. I get pleasure out of sports however I live for my painting!
It is funny how we are all separate. Walk down bedford avenue...freak'in hipsterville...on Sunday and you'll see two football jersey's, the one Shane is wearing and the one Brad is wearing. Walk down any street in a non-art community and you may see five to ten jerseys. Side note...I thought it was funny because when my brother came to visit in September, i took him Mulhollands to watch football where he sat proudly wearing his eagles jersey. He also asked me why all the Brooklyn guys weigh 80lbs and all wear tight black jeans. Hilarious...coming from my bro who is a semi-jock! Are artist's scared to be sports fans? I am not sure. I don't know what the big deal is. You like both, so like both. I also think sporty people can usually beat up skinny artists...maybe we are rebelling. Maybe they were beat up when they were younger.. Who knows. All I know is the when the majority of artists are not athletic and the majority of athletes are not artistic the majority rules therefore artists can't be jocks. I don't agree with this...I am just saying that's what the majority of society tells us and the media portrays it!
I hope all this makes sense and there is so much more I can get into...like one time i did paint my face at a delaware basketball game and was on espn screaming for about 15 seconds. Which just made me think of something else. Would you rather go to the Superbowl one year of have tickets to an amazing private art opening? I'd totally go to the game. I think I just realized I really like the activity of painting and the release it gives me from my daily life but when it comes to actually going out to museums and galleries...shoot, i'd rather throw the ball around or sit in a bar and watch Tampa beat up on the Steelers...oh wait what. (of course this isn't always the case...i would NEVER pass up a Nevelson or Rothko show and I do go to museums and galleries often.)
Anyhow I could write and write but I am at work and I am tired of closing my screen every time someone walks by me...have to look productive at work! and I am sure this is all choppy so I apologize. Its a shame we all don't have time to sit down and feed off each other in person. I am way better at expressing myself through a verbal conversation.
Kisses!
(JL):
So is it safe to say that individually artists have rivals but there is not a gang mentality (us vs. them) in the art world? The thing about a rivalry is that it really only works if it is viewed as such mutually. Eagle fans view Dallas as its rival...however, I imagine that is like having to deal with a pesky little brother to Dallas fans, because most likely the Redskins are their true enemy. I find that I need and will look for something to fight against when I'm working...sometimes (I'll admit) go outta my way to make mountains out of mole hills. If I overheard someone talking negatively about my work...that works for me --- makes me tick. Michael what is it that motivates you? How did you arrive at your current body of work?...there must have been some sort of reaction either positive or negative. Did people initially react the way you had anticipated? I ask because I imagine your work has a polarizing effect on viewers.
Ridley Howard (RH):
I was seven years old when georgia won the national championship. second grade, 1980. my earliest memories of football are from that year. herschel walker flattening bill bates of tennessee in his freshman debut, and lindsay scott's scamper down the sideline to beat the hated gators and remain undefeated. i also remember the national championship game and ensuing euphoria after they took down mighty notre dame in the sugar bowl. the memories are vague, but there.. and have been bolstered by highlight reels and tapes of radio god larry munson. "run lindsay, run!.. there's going to be some property destroyed tonight!" at that point, i had no idea what football was, really. but i knew that my dad loved it, and i could watch the games with him.. the drama was easy enough to follow, and sharing in the excitement was thrilling. i also had some sense that my family's identity was wrapped up in the fact that we were all georgia fans. everyone. both sides of
the family. we weren't redneck gators or vols, and we weren't nerds from tech. we were dogs.. and this was a point of pride for me even at age 7. watching the bulldogs was at its core, a way of connecting with these people.. most specifically my dad. this remains true to this day, even though my perspective on all of it has changed a bit. when i decided to be an artist, and staged my own version of youth rebellion.. sports remained the one obvious connection my family and i shared. of course there were more.. but when it seemed like there was nothing to talk about, we could talk about football.
it is no coincidence that my first serious works of art were also created in 1980. crayola renderings of uga (georgia's mascot), and copies of jack davis bulldog illustrations from the football programs. i had made drawings before, but these were my best.. and they were met with praise and understanding from my family. the very best were framed, and all of them found there way to the fridge. like sports, art became a way of connecting with people, and an early part of my identity. i felt like i could say it all with a picture, and they got it. in the family tree of bulldog fans, i was the artist. i made hundreds of bulldog drawings, it was main subject until about fifth grade, when i discovered band logos and bob ross.
so for me, both art and sport are still about some kind of nonverbal connection with people. i sometimes joke that all of my friends are painters or sports fans or both. i like people that can surrender themselves to something irrational. neither art nor sports really matter, but i like to believe they do.. i like that they are vehicles for shared experience.
(JL):
Hey Ridley,
Thanks for contributing to the brawl...Not sure if this question works but how about...
Obviously, as a youngster you were drawing to get recognition from your family and perhaps friends that also favored the Dawgs. Who do you see as your audience now? And why not throw some UGA in your recent work? Why do we lose some of our initial "artistic" tendencies as we mature. I know when I was younger I used to draw Bigfoot --- not sure if it was because I was deathly afraid of the mythical creature or liked the manner in which I rendered it...either way, I haven't drawn a bigfoot in about 30 years.
Brent Birnbaum:
I'm picking up what your putting down Ridley. Art and sports being "vehicles for shared experience" is a brilliant way to put it. There seems to be an "us vs. them" tone in this conversation concerning Williamsburg hipsters that we perceive as artists and not being into sports versus us, artists who are into sports. I wonder how many Williamsburg residents are actually artists or are involved in the arts. Dana is one. Steven Stewart is two. Jon Elliott makes three. I'm sure there are more , but that's all i know. I would like to see a poll. Why we are at it, let's take a poll on who has a sports team jersey. I'm glad Dana brought that up. I think it would be a fascinating way to divide people.
What about the kickball, soccer, basketball, and softball games (just to name a few) that occur at McCarren Park? And what about the Gutter? Hipsters and bowling? More than half the people in this dialogue are on a bowling team together (shout out Irritable Bowl Syndrome). As Brad mentioned the ever so important ironic factor involved in the hipster mentality. Most people would assume we are ironic rollers. Do I even need to say for the readers we are not? I'll concede kickball to irony. Four square game anyone?
I believe there is more overlap of art and sports than we are aware of. Take this artist I know named Trent. He had been around the New York art scene for a little bit before he started doing cocaine. Once he started doing lines, this whole network of artists who do coke was revealed to him. Obviously some people talk about their drug use regardless of who is around, but most people don't advertise with a little baggy in a clear fanny pack. (There are such things as clear fanny packs. I have an ironic one in my studio.) Once I started meeting artists who play sports, I would inevitably meet more artists who play sports. But no one was wearing jerseys with their tight black jeans so this whole network was only revealed to me once... Now I can easily get a game of 5 on 5 hoops going, just with artists. Jon Elliott is one.
Who knows Malcolm Morley's work? In 2005 at Sperone Westwater gallery, he showed a series of paintings based upon digital photographs of sports scenes or catastrophes. One piece was an image of the crash that killed NASCAR driver Dale Earnhardt. Malcolm's current body of work is all motocross.
To answer Michael's question concerning an art nemesis, I would say I don't have one. I have artists I look up to just like sports fans follow their favorite players. I would have loved to see what Jason Rhoades was going to be making in 2019. But unlike "Trent," he didn't put down the hard stuff.
By the way, I have a Liverpool goalie jersey, USA soccer jersey, Dallas Mavericks Steve Nash jersey, and an ironic Unicorns jersey artist Erik Benson gave me. What's in your closet?
Alex Gingrow (AG)
Greetings all. I have a few jabs to throw out before I get to my talking points. First of all, I think there is a severe and unfortunate confusion between “artists” and “hipsters.” Let’s keep those two entities straight: one makes art, the other concerns him or herself with fashion. Very separate terms indeed. Secondly, Ridley Howard, I don’t know who you are, but I just want to make sure in your previous posting that you were using the adjective “redneck” to modify the Gators and not the Vols. Because I assure you, having been born and raised in Knoxville and later attending graduate school in Savannah, that Dawg fans are just as, if not more so, rednecky as Tennessee Volunteer fans. Finally, I encourage you all (especially Michael and Brent—sorry to burst your bubble) to go to the Parker’s Box Gallery website and check out Tim Laun. Now that that that’s straight…
Michael and I were coming home the other night and I asked him why I was not included in the Art Brawl conversation. He turned and said to me, “Because you hate sports!” Which brings up an interesting conversation in and of itself. I do not, in fact, hate sports. I grew up ice skating. I was a cheerleader in high school. I love minor league baseball. I enjoy a Tennessee football game now and then as well as Lady Vols basketball. I like to throw the baseball or the football in the park. (I do not own any sports jerseys, but I hardly think it matters.)
This scenario begs two questions which are relevant to one another: 1) How do we define sports (both in the context of this conversation and in general) and 2) What is the hatred to which Michael was referring?
1. I have been thinking about my own definition of sports and have decided that it is a competitive physical activity that includes a set of rules and a value system based upon the set of rules. According to this definition, ice skating and cheerleading would fall into the category of sport. Where these two particular sports (and there are surely others that fall into this category) differ from what has mainly been discussed in this forum, is that they also exist in order to elicit an emotional reaction from the audience. Ice skating is scored according to both a technical and an artistic point system, and in cheerleading points are awarded for both technical abilities and spirit. However, how many of you have scoffed when the idea of ice skating or cheerleading as sport has been introduced? I would even go so far as to suggest that these types of sports are at the apex of the convergence of art and sport. So when we discuss elitism in the art world (which I by no means would deny the existence of), I would prefer to extend this conversation to elitism in the sports world as well.
2. The hatred I feel to which Michael was referring has nothing to do with the games or the sports themselves. What I do hate is the CULTURE of most sports. It is loud. It is aggressive. On football Sundays it is often disgustingly intoxicated. And I will come right out and say it for the sake of argument, I find it utterly un-intellectual, grossly primal and violent, and essentially unappealing. What I enjoy is being with friends, enjoying a beer, having a sense of focus, and watching the marvels of the human form unfold. I do not know how any artist (or anyone who has ever taken a life drawing class for that matter) could not enjoy watching the beauty and grace of a well-sculpted body running, catching, kicking, and throwing. These actions are miracles of both art and science and I would never deny the glory of that. But I’ll tell you what snaps me out that admiration quicker than a priest exiting the boys’ dorm. Screaming, hollering, fists pounding, palms slapping, shit talking leading to bar brawls, shots being pounded leading to more bar brawls, titty grabbing, ass groping, and all the like. Do any of you deny that this is part of sport’s culture? Perhaps not in the polo circles, golf tours, swim meets; but those sports have their own array of naughty culture. Hell, I left competitive ice skating because I couldn’t stand my teammates anymore. They weren’t violent and insolent (sans the Tonya Harding incident), but they were dull, preppy, doted upon, i.e. not my type of people. (This is not to insinuate that they, or any other sports fanatics for that matter, are BAD people. They are simply not usually my type of people. And I am speaking in gross generalities here.)
So what is the main difference between art and sports? Between artists and athletes? Between the gallery game and the football field. It is very simple. It is all a matter of quality versus quantity. This is where the separation between the two cultures begins. Jim alluded to this earlier in his clarification of Brad’s entry. Sports are structured on a set of rules, guidelines, and point systems. Though art has set rules in theory, the only practical rules are that it is okay to break the rules. And there are certainly no point systems in art. (Now, it is possible here to begin a discussion of the art market and point systems and how this has created a sense of rivalry between artists and abolished any need for art gangs and group manifestos except for that of “One for all and fuck the rest.”) So this is what I think it all boils down to: real art is valued on its merit and integrity, which thus requires the viewer to determine his or her own idea of the art’s quality. Sports require the viewer simply to watch and perhaps keep score according to the prescribed point system him or herself. (Though most sporting events these days are gracious enough to provide their supporters with a dandy scoreboard and/or plenty of television graphics to keep the eye smitten.) Art requires critical thinking, analytical reasoning, and the creation of choices. Sports on the other hand requires choosing choices that have already been presented to the player. And while sports casters are paid (I assume quite well) to “analyze” a game (such as one might analyze a work of art), I would argue that there is very little there to actually analyze. One may comment on a player’s strategy, or perhaps even a team or a coach’s strategy, but that, again, comes down to only choosing one of the few choices that have been already laid out for him, her, or them by the aforementioned rules and regulations. Statistically speaking, there is only a limited combination of plays available at any given time. Not so in art. (In the art market, yes. But that is a Beast unto itself.)
So that’s the breakdown. Quality versus quantity. Intellectual creativity versus regulated choosing.
Brad Berkner:
Excellent observations Alex and I agree whole heartedly about the hipster / artist comments. They were an unfortunate simile of a point I was trying to establish but obviously did not work. I hope this better explains the idea of the exclusivity that comes with both art and sport that I was trying to establish.
I think both sports and the arts have a sense of elitism. There is an air of pretension or even just confidence that accompanies both. The artist representing his or her work and the athlete who demands respect on the field, court etc… (Forgive me, I have been out of the art world while living in Charlotte for about 3 years so I don't have many references outside of grad school and working at the Warhol museum.) While working at the Warhol, I often had to work Sundays while my beloved Steelers were playing. The museum was mere blocks from the stadium. As I would gaze out the window wishing I was there with my fellow fans tailgating, I often overheard many conversations from patrons about them not understanding what the big deal was with the game or talking about the fans as commoners. Then you also had the fan who came into the museum because they bought a ticket for our parking lot and also had to buy tickets to the museum and thought that art in general was ridiculous crap. I also ran into many patrons who came to see the museum first then went to the game though they were among the minority. Personally I never understood why they were so negative toward each other. I guess I sort of feel trapped in the middle and would love to explain to both parties how great art and sports are but I assume it would be like talking to a wall. I wish I could remember more of the Sunday conversations I had with patrons, fans and fellow employees. (I will ask some of my Warhol friends who I still keep in touch with)
I think Alex also touched upon another commonality I see between sports and art in terms of the human anatomy. The idea of monuments and statues created for beloved athletes and historically speaking warriors and generals. Personally I always thought Warhol should just encase himself in glass (maybe a hologram would suffice) because he essentially already was the art work itself almost like all the eccentric characters in sports. Do any of you know if there are monuments of famed artists in the vain of a statue you might see outside a stadium??? I have no idea but I’m guessing there has to be one somewhere. (I’m sure there is one in NY that I don’t know about?)
(RH) I can certainly appreciate your love for the Dawgs. (Hines Ward) and also the 4yrs I spent in GA. Just glad Pitt beat you in 1976 for that National Championship. I was thinking it would be very interesting if you were to create a group of UGA pieces and do an entire exhibition in Gainesville or Knoxville as sort of a shot across the bow. I think even a group show would be interesting Dallas, Skins and Eagles NFC East – stake your claim. Why not try and start something with an artist from another city, seems like fun…you know, mix it up, throw a brick through the other guys window.
(Brent) Thanks for the heads up on Malcolm Morley's work! I’m a bit out of the loop as I mentioned so any information about art / artist’s is always appreciated.
Not sure if this is worth anything but I also found it interesting how art often portrays sport. I guess you could trace this back to cave paintings even with big game hunts depicted on cave walls as a form of communication or simply a record of the event. The most athletic and cunning hunters were the heroes of their groups or tribes. Now we have flashy technology with dizzy eye candy (which I create as a motion graphics artist) to depict games and strategy or just the next segment as a form of storytelling. Morley’s paintings also depict this. They are events in time and art in all its forms is the medium for which they are archived.
